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	<title>Comments on: Real estate secrets at Syms?&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/</link>
	<description>Michelle Leder's guide to what's hiding in SEC filings</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Wendy Jorgensen</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5931</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Jorgensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5931</guid>
		<description>I concur with Mr. Sole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur with Mr. Sole.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew L. Sole</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5684</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew L. Sole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5684</guid>
		<description>Is SYMS merely an off price retailer or a real estate developer, or is it both? Its 10K declares it as purely an "off price retailer", yet its disclosure and the data from the recent 8K may suggest otherwise.

SYMS stated that its net rental income reduced SGA by approximately 2%  for the most recent fiscal year or approximately 1.5mm dollars (notwithstanding the argument of whether it is even appropriate to account for the rental income by reducing your SGA expenses, especially since the Company considers itself an "off price retailer"). 

SYMS reported approximately 2.2mm dollars in operating income for the most recent fiscal year, thus 2 of 3 dollars SYMS generated in operating income last year was attributable to rental income. And if you look at recent years, rental income (assuming the net rental income has been the same for the last few years) has been a significant portion of its total operating income. 

Should not the numbers speak for themselves about how SYMS should characterizes its business?


Sincerely,
Andrew L. Sole
Managing Member
Esopus Creek Advisors LLC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is SYMS merely an off price retailer or a real estate developer, or is it both? Its 10K declares it as purely an &#8220;off price retailer&#8221;, yet its disclosure and the data from the recent 8K may suggest otherwise.</p>
<p>SYMS stated that its net rental income reduced SGA by approximately 2%  for the most recent fiscal year or approximately 1.5mm dollars (notwithstanding the argument of whether it is even appropriate to account for the rental income by reducing your SGA expenses, especially since the Company considers itself an &#8220;off price retailer&#8221;). </p>
<p>SYMS reported approximately 2.2mm dollars in operating income for the most recent fiscal year, thus 2 of 3 dollars SYMS generated in operating income last year was attributable to rental income. And if you look at recent years, rental income (assuming the net rental income has been the same for the last few years) has been a significant portion of its total operating income. </p>
<p>Should not the numbers speak for themselves about how SYMS should characterizes its business?</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Andrew L. Sole<br />
Managing Member<br />
Esopus Creek Advisors LLC</p>
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		<title>By: MB</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5679</link>
		<dc:creator>MB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5679</guid>
		<description>WF,

Sure,  since Syms is not a developer real estate should be viewed in the overall context of the companies operations. However, Syms lackluster earnings record as a retailer should certainly raise some serious questions about resource deployment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WF,</p>
<p>Sure,  since Syms is not a developer real estate should be viewed in the overall context of the companies operations. However, Syms lackluster earnings record as a retailer should certainly raise some serious questions about resource deployment.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Fried</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5658</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Fried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5658</guid>
		<description>I would agree, but since the company has been forced to re-list, that doesn't entirely explain it. I focused on the disclosure issues in my post, but the argument here is also about whether Syms must maximize the value of its real estate assets for the benefit of the public shareholders. The letter from Marcy Syms to Esopus takes this on, saying basically, hey guys, we're retailers, not real estate developers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree, but since the company has been forced to re-list, that doesn&#8217;t entirely explain it. I focused on the disclosure issues in my post, but the argument here is also about whether Syms must maximize the value of its real estate assets for the benefit of the public shareholders. The letter from Marcy Syms to Esopus takes this on, saying basically, hey guys, we&#8217;re retailers, not real estate developers.</p>
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		<title>By: MB</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5649</link>
		<dc:creator>MB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5649</guid>
		<description>Chris,

It appeards that, implicit in the Esopus assertions is that Syms was obscuring value so as to cheaply take the company private.  One needs to look no further than the plunge in the stock price to single digits upon the de-listing announcement to understand how this is feasible.  De-listing is like a kiss-of-death to public, non-control shareholders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>It appeards that, implicit in the Esopus assertions is that Syms was obscuring value so as to cheaply take the company private.  One needs to look no further than the plunge in the stock price to single digits upon the de-listing announcement to understand how this is feasible.  De-listing is like a kiss-of-death to public, non-control shareholders.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Croy</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5637</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Croy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5637</guid>
		<description>As far as I can tell, Esopus is alleging that Syms is making it seem like they're worth less and making less than they actually are.  Can anyone explain to me how Syms would benefit from that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell, Esopus is alleging that Syms is making it seem like they&#8217;re worth less and making less than they actually are.  Can anyone explain to me how Syms would benefit from that?</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Fried</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5631</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Fried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5631</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your comment. What's wonky is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but in any event this dispute has some unusual aspects and I'll be following the story with interest. By mentioning the Syms argument that certain information was immaterial, I wasn't intending to express any view as to which side has this right. The issue of what's material to investors is, of course, far from simple and lawyers can make a nice income from arguing about it. Since what we do here is read SEC filings, I picked up the Marcy Syms quote because it neatly frames a big picture issue about disclosure. Best, Wendy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. What&#8217;s wonky is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but in any event this dispute has some unusual aspects and I&#8217;ll be following the story with interest. By mentioning the Syms argument that certain information was immaterial, I wasn&#8217;t intending to express any view as to which side has this right. The issue of what&#8217;s material to investors is, of course, far from simple and lawyers can make a nice income from arguing about it. Since what we do here is read SEC filings, I picked up the Marcy Syms quote because it neatly frames a big picture issue about disclosure. Best, Wendy</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew L. Sole</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/buried-treasure/the-family-business/real-estate-secrets-at-syms/comment-page-1/#comment-5630</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew L. Sole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=1925#comment-5630</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your analysis. I would like to add that for a small company like SYMS, 400,000 sq ft is not an immaterial amount of real estate. Furthermore, the number omits the approximate 175,000-200,000 sq ft of buildable square feet (i.e. air rights ) the Company owns in lower Manhattan. No mention is ever made in their 10K about this real estate either.

The Company recently paid $200 per square foot for air rights next to its lower Manhattan property. This implies , using the Company's own transaction as a metric, that the undisclosed 175,000-200,000 buildable sq ft is worth  no less than 35-40 mm in value. ( In fact market prices in nearby locations imply far larger valuations).

Assuming arguendo that the $200 per sq ft valuation represents the state of the current market, how does 35-40 mm in value relative to a company with a market capitalization of 230mm become an immaterial amount of real estate not worthy of a disclosure?  

Furthermore, other than the Company's disclosure regarding their leasing of a property in Westchester to another retailer, the Company has only  now disclosed  that it leases out swaths of its undisclosed owned real estate to third party tenants.  Try to locate an earlier disclosure, you might be hard pressed.

And using the net rental income to reduce SGA expenses for a company which is a self described "off price retailer" gives an inaccurate portrayal of the true operating margins for the retail operations. No footnotes have ever disclosed the offset.

I would disagree that this is merely a "wonky" dispute. 

Sincerely,
Andrew L. Sole
Managing Member
Esopus Creek Advisors LLC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your analysis. I would like to add that for a small company like SYMS, 400,000 sq ft is not an immaterial amount of real estate. Furthermore, the number omits the approximate 175,000-200,000 sq ft of buildable square feet (i.e. air rights ) the Company owns in lower Manhattan. No mention is ever made in their 10K about this real estate either.</p>
<p>The Company recently paid $200 per square foot for air rights next to its lower Manhattan property. This implies , using the Company&#8217;s own transaction as a metric, that the undisclosed 175,000-200,000 buildable sq ft is worth  no less than 35-40 mm in value. ( In fact market prices in nearby locations imply far larger valuations).</p>
<p>Assuming arguendo that the $200 per sq ft valuation represents the state of the current market, how does 35-40 mm in value relative to a company with a market capitalization of 230mm become an immaterial amount of real estate not worthy of a disclosure?  </p>
<p>Furthermore, other than the Company&#8217;s disclosure regarding their leasing of a property in Westchester to another retailer, the Company has only  now disclosed  that it leases out swaths of its undisclosed owned real estate to third party tenants.  Try to locate an earlier disclosure, you might be hard pressed.</p>
<p>And using the net rental income to reduce SGA expenses for a company which is a self described &#8220;off price retailer&#8221; gives an inaccurate portrayal of the true operating margins for the retail operations. No footnotes have ever disclosed the offset.</p>
<p>I would disagree that this is merely a &#8220;wonky&#8221; dispute. </p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Andrew L. Sole<br />
Managing Member<br />
Esopus Creek Advisors LLC</p>
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