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	<title>Comments on: Voters kick payday lenders to the curb in Ohio, Arizona&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/</link>
	<description>Michelle Leder&#039;s guide to what&#039;s hiding in SEC filings</description>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6750</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6750</guid>
		<description>Sean,

Proscriptions against usury are found in diverse legal and religious traditions and predate the papacy.  Why?  Because usury is immoral. ALL legal systems invalidate agreements made under duress.  

Your first argument,  &quot;We need to legalize it so we can regulate it&quot; can be made against any illegal activity and doesn&#039;t address the merits of the issue of usury.

Your second point is true enough. 

Your third point has me scratching my head.  Who is subsidized by a cap on interest rates?  

I agree that entering into loans with usurious rates is self-destructive, but in the case of predatory loans education/term disclosure seems a more reasonable remedy.

In fact, I think the best libertarian argument to be made in favor of usurious loans is to promote the consumer protection model.  Under such a scheme, payday and other usurious loans are legal when accompanied by a clear declaration of the terms of the loan and what practical effect the loan will have (this loan will have a term of 399 years. . .).  Unfortunately, consumer protection models have become a joke--read any of the &#039;disclosure&#039; notices from your bank/credit card company lately?

Harvard Law professor Elizabeth Warren writes eloquently on this and related topics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,</p>
<p>Proscriptions against usury are found in diverse legal and religious traditions and predate the papacy.  Why?  Because usury is immoral. ALL legal systems invalidate agreements made under duress.  </p>
<p>Your first argument,  &#8220;We need to legalize it so we can regulate it&#8221; can be made against any illegal activity and doesn&#8217;t address the merits of the issue of usury.</p>
<p>Your second point is true enough. </p>
<p>Your third point has me scratching my head.  Who is subsidized by a cap on interest rates?  </p>
<p>I agree that entering into loans with usurious rates is self-destructive, but in the case of predatory loans education/term disclosure seems a more reasonable remedy.</p>
<p>In fact, I think the best libertarian argument to be made in favor of usurious loans is to promote the consumer protection model.  Under such a scheme, payday and other usurious loans are legal when accompanied by a clear declaration of the terms of the loan and what practical effect the loan will have (this loan will have a term of 399 years. . .).  Unfortunately, consumer protection models have become a joke&#8211;read any of the &#8216;disclosure&#8217; notices from your bank/credit card company lately?</p>
<p>Harvard Law professor Elizabeth Warren writes eloquently on this and related topics.</p>
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		<title>By: payday loan software</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6744</link>
		<dc:creator>payday loan software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6744</guid>
		<description>Why are people so concerned about the APR of a payday loan?  The APR is not a realistic way of looking at a Payday loan.  A payday loan is until your NEXT payday.  $8 per $100 per week is a great deal when you compare it to returned check fees and late fees on utility bills.  Do you ever hear about people losing their house because of a payday loan?  No!  They lose their house from credit cards that have ridiculous credit lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are people so concerned about the APR of a payday loan?  The APR is not a realistic way of looking at a Payday loan.  A payday loan is until your NEXT payday.  $8 per $100 per week is a great deal when you compare it to returned check fees and late fees on utility bills.  Do you ever hear about people losing their house because of a payday loan?  No!  They lose their house from credit cards that have ridiculous credit lines.</p>
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		<title>By: Online Payday Loans</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6738</link>
		<dc:creator>Online Payday Loans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6738</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really sad that you are willing to put hard working american out of a job because you dont&#039; like the intrest rate the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.checkcity.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;payday loan&lt;/a&gt; industy charges.  Well if you don&#039;t like it you don&#039;t have to use it.  Worry about yourself and not people who really need this service.  Why not focus on more important issues like how this country is going to pay all that unemployment when are deficit is already high. And where are these people going to fing jobs when there are not job right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really sad that you are willing to put hard working american out of a job because you dont&#8217; like the intrest rate the <a href="http://www.checkcity.com" rel="nofollow">payday loan</a> industy charges.  Well if you don&#8217;t like it you don&#8217;t have to use it.  Worry about yourself and not people who really need this service.  Why not focus on more important issues like how this country is going to pay all that unemployment when are deficit is already high. And where are these people going to fing jobs when there are not job right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6731</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6731</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;ll be the heartless libertarian on this one....

If consumers are in such dire need of money that they&#039;ll pay 28%, then it&#039;s only reasonable to imagine that there are even *more* distressed borrowers that will pay even higher rates. Without the regulated, somewhat reputable pawnshop or payday loan provider, these people will end up on the black market with the mob. And instead of repossessing things or garnishing wages, they&#039;ll have truly devastating social consequences -- death and kidnapping.

Second, these interest caps are the first step back to Dark Ages papal usury laws. There&#039;s a reason most credit card companies base operations in South Dakota -- no usury law.

Third, the commenters that say capping the rate will avoid a vicious debt cycle have muddy thinking. A legal cap is an implicit subsidy, and will *encourage* more self-destructive borrowing, because the consumer won&#039;t feel the true market price of outrageous borrowing, only a &quot;reasonable two-digit cap.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;ll be the heartless libertarian on this one&#8230;.</p>
<p>If consumers are in such dire need of money that they&#8217;ll pay 28%, then it&#8217;s only reasonable to imagine that there are even *more* distressed borrowers that will pay even higher rates. Without the regulated, somewhat reputable pawnshop or payday loan provider, these people will end up on the black market with the mob. And instead of repossessing things or garnishing wages, they&#8217;ll have truly devastating social consequences &#8212; death and kidnapping.</p>
<p>Second, these interest caps are the first step back to Dark Ages papal usury laws. There&#8217;s a reason most credit card companies base operations in South Dakota &#8212; no usury law.</p>
<p>Third, the commenters that say capping the rate will avoid a vicious debt cycle have muddy thinking. A legal cap is an implicit subsidy, and will *encourage* more self-destructive borrowing, because the consumer won&#8217;t feel the true market price of outrageous borrowing, only a &#8220;reasonable two-digit cap.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6730</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6730</guid>
		<description>Apart from those who might lose their jobs if payday lending were to cease, maybe a better victory would be no loan availability at all.  Consumers can&#039;t get trapped in a vicious cycle of debt if it&#039;s not offered in the first place.  Isn&#039;t unmitigated borrowing one of the addictive behaviors that we as a country need to wean ourselves from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from those who might lose their jobs if payday lending were to cease, maybe a better victory would be no loan availability at all.  Consumers can&#8217;t get trapped in a vicious cycle of debt if it&#8217;s not offered in the first place.  Isn&#8217;t unmitigated borrowing one of the addictive behaviors that we as a country need to wean ourselves from?</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond</title>
		<link>http://www.footnoted.org/pr-spin/voters-kick-payday-lenders-to-the-curb-in-ohio-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-6725</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.footnoted.org/?p=2928#comment-6725</guid>
		<description>This is an overwhelming victory for Ohio&#039;s consumers. Over 3 million Ohio voters strongly repudiated 10 years of predatory payday lending and asked for a return to fair and responsible lending! This is a positive development for Ohio&#039;s families, communities and economy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an overwhelming victory for Ohio&#8217;s consumers. Over 3 million Ohio voters strongly repudiated 10 years of predatory payday lending and asked for a return to fair and responsible lending! This is a positive development for Ohio&#8217;s families, communities and economy!</p>
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